With the new batch of sports bikes all coming out with varying degrees of electronic packages .. ABS, Race ABS, Traction control, Launch control, etc ... how much of this is relevant on a road going sports bike ? .. or is all this pitched at getting you part with your hard earned to have the latest gagets !! I can see the benifits for a good ABS system, granted ! maybe traction control .. but the worry is you get to rely on these systems and lose the feel for braking and throttle control, maybe the systems can be detuned to be less intrusive and come in as a fail safe ... has anyone experience of this ?? ... There is of course 'the what if it goes wrong factor' I'd be a bit upset launching 14 grands worth of Aprilia while your sat on your backside !!
Any thoughts ?
Sadly it's all part of progression, the cutting edge race technology becomes the optional extra, the optional extra becomes the flagship equipment, the flagship spec becomes fitted to everything. How much better do we think riders were when traction control was purely operated by the right wrist? How much more exciting were race starts when someone messed it up and bogged the engine, while his counterpart at his side set off like a bat outta hell with the front wheel 18 inches in the air? I think they were a lot better, my own personal opinion. Yes, these toys might make bikes easier to ride for both racers and our normal selves, but then it's removing part of the whole experience as far as i'm concerned. If i want something that doesn't lock or spin the wheels if i'm a bit clumsy, i'll get in your average car. I WANT to have the chance of the bike flipping if i drop the clutch with the revs in the red. I want the back wheel to skip and bounce around if i dump the clutch after banging it down 2 gears going hard into a corner. Cos i'm a biker, and i want the bike to feel as alive as i do!! When they sanitise 2 wheels to the point it's not exciting anymore, i'll get back on my skateboard lol!! And they wonder why classic bikes are so popular, all the new stuff is losing it's bloodline and heritage from when bikes were animals. Lets keep 'em that way!
Hi Kwakarider, I think a certain Mr Rossi would agree with you there ! how many of the current crop of moto gp hotshots would be there without the aid of electronics ? ... personally I've never riden a bike that is unmanageable, some are more exciting and challenging than others, but that all part of the fun :)
All that said .. I have a test ride on a BMW tomorrow, so I'll let you Know how sanitised a 190 bhp superbike can be. lol !!
i totaly agree with kwakarider .... i know a guy who has got a 2009 zx10r and we swapped bikes (mine being an 1989 zx10 b2) .... scared the bl**dy crap out of him he actually had to work hard to keep the bike under control on corners, braking and acceleration ..... nothing wrong with the bike it just dont have the niceties of a modern bike... 4 great keihins trying to suck in small mammals and headgerows power comes on at 4000rpm explodes at 6000rpm all the way to the red line at 11000 .... the old kwak is front heavy so braking can be a bit violent at speed ... throw it into roundabout and you have to throw it out or keep going round and have another go .... dont get me wrong the zx10r is an animal but the bike is better balanced smoother accelerating and better braking BUT i can see where complacency can sneak in i found the bike was erm almost taking me for a ride and i felt concentration was only 95% simply because i was having an easier time..... you can only add so much to a bike before it becomes a two wheel car then we would probably see more accidents due to nodding off at the handlebars or system malfunction that catches a rider out where they wouldnt simply know what to do to keep the bike under control ...... gotta have a cuppa now and let the blood flow back into me typing finger
" I WANT to have the chance of the bike flipping if i drop the clutch with the revs in the red. I want the back wheel to skip and bounce around if i dump the clutch after banging it down 2 gears going hard into a corner. Cos i'm a biker, and i want the bike to feel as alive as i do!! When they sanitise 2 wheels to the point it's not exciting anymore, i'll get back on my skateboard lol!! And
they wonder why classic bikes are so popular, all the new stuff is
losing it's bloodline and heritage from when bikes were animals. Lets keep 'em that way! "
And dont forget the workshop bills apart from changing oil and filters its a dealer as you dont have £20,000 in diagnostics.
Most bikes and cars have to go in now as you cant turn the idiot light off
Thats why ya have me phone No John !!
I can tell you how to extinguish the Engine Light and in most cases how to extract the code that illuminated it.
However, thats when the fun starts .. .. .. excatly what components parameters were exceeded and WHY ??
MV
I can see the benifits for a good ABS system, granted ! maybe traction control .. but the worry is you get to rely on these systems and lose the feel for braking and throttle control,
That is SOOO true mate !!
maybe the systems can be detuned to be less intrusive and come in as a fail safe ...
Unforunatley, the opposite is true .. .. these systems will always switch OFF as a fail safe.
Apart from that .. .. .. ^^^ What Kwaka, Nellie an Marsey said ^^^
well guy's, call me a blasphemer, heratic whatever you like, having tested the BMW today I like it !! ... forget all the other the other setting just stick in race mode and ride the thing ... it's blisteringly quick ! with handling and brakes to match !! i'm not an expert rider, but I couldn't detect any of the "rider enhancements" kicking in ... just felt like a fast well sorted bike.
Well that's one down ducati and Aprilia to go !! Hope I've not upset you guy's ... my track bike's a 2001 R1 no gagets honest
Hey, nothing wrong with liking the thing! In race mode, are they all switched off? Or certainly at a minimum at least. Tis supposed to be the number one superbike at the mo after all lol! Would be interesting to compare the same bike with no rider aids at all, just to see if the bike actually is just so sorted that it all works, or are the electronics just doing a really good job? Hence my original post - the electronics removing the element of skill and control from the rider and doing the job for us. I ride a B1H ZX636, probably one of the liveliest bikes of recent times. It's a bit slap happy, skits around on bumpy corners, front end lifts and waggles the bars over crests that normal bikes would just flow over, it snarls, bites, and intimidates riders used to the niceties of smoother suspended machine, AND I LOVE IT!
Don't you think its getting like a play station game. Brake as hard as you can, let the electronics sort the back end from skiping, throw it on its side, whack open the throttle, let the electronics sort it out, lean angle sensors that don't give you full power. Anti wheelie this that and the other, it takes away the riding by the seat of your pants and just relying on the gadgets. Its not for me, i like to be in control
Exactly what i mean ACB. Not saying i'm the best or fastest rider in any group, but i like to feel whats going on through my ass, hands, knees and feet. Would like to see stacey moaner try and ride a 500 gp two stroke i know that lol.
I think you are all missing the point to varying degrees.
My ZX10 is restricted to 186mph and no way on earth can anyone ride it anywhere near its abilities on the road. Except perhaps Race week on the IOM.....
It doesn't have ABS or traction control etc. but it is mind-blowingly capable.......
And that is the fun.
You don't have to ride at the limit where things kick in on these bikes to have enormous fun.
Progress is good. There are people I know with older 600s and my 10 stuffs them in the turns and on the brakes..... I am all for progress.
Been mulling this one over for a while now ... limeninja9's quite right, your average rider won't push a modern superbike anywhere near it's limits ... so you end up riding on that knife edge of your own ability, it's scary and exhilarating at the same time ... and I'm sorry but your never going to 'wring it's neck' unless your name's Cructhlow or Haslam, .. I don't like the idea of the bike correcting for my mistakes .. but I have been known to get it spectacularly wrong and if the electronics somehow get it back .. I'm all for it !! ( maybe a broken femur and two years recovery from the last bike that kicked my ass, has clouded my judgement !)
I could book a course at Ron Haslam's race school and learn how to ride the thing properly
Read an article in this weeks MCN about todays superbikes always being tested at the big foreign tracks, cos they are the only place you can get anywhere near their full potential, in a nutshell he said to keep the engines in peak working range on the road you only need the first two gears. needs to be read to be understood. Mv dave I took the BMW 1000 sports out last year whilst my tourer was having a service, I couldn't use more than 12000 revs. Getting old or too much traffic lmao.
Bikes have got a lot safer over the past ten years or so and I think that's a good thing.
Having spent a month on a truly modern sports bike complete with all the modern gadgetry, I feel suitably qualified to say that it was superb. Incredibly quick, superb handling (ignoring tyre issues), wonderfully maneuverable and the ability to stop on a sixpence (whatever a sixpence is!).
I never noticed any of the electronics (apart from the slipper clutch, not sure I liked that because of the way it affected declaration on a closed throttle), as limeninja says, it just felt like an extremely sorted bike. To say that my cb feels big, heavy, slow and pretty "loose" is probably quite an understatement lol!
Whenever people asked about the 'blade, I used to tell them this; in the correct hands, ie an experienced, advanced rider, it was an extremely efficient and safe tool. A tool capable of transporting you from a to b much more quickly than anything else on the road whilst offering you the ability to also change direction/position/line and/or reduce speed or stop with an efficiency that most car drivers simply can't comprehend.
However, put it in the wrong hands and it could very quickly indeed become a 180bhp killer. Yes, a novice could get on it and quite happily pootle on down to the shops, but as soon as they decided to "see what it can do", it would bite, of that I am sure.
Electronics taking control? Maybe, a little. Sanitised? Don't think so!
is that advanced in age Geoff ;-)
never had the privlage of ridding such a modern machine but all i can say is that it has ruined the way modern cars drive so i cant really see how it can better the way a bike works ,
as somebody said earlyer on if i want to do a wheelie i can or light the back wheel again i can it may make em safer for normal road use but its gotto take ultimate control out of your hands for sure !
ps i dont really ride like that its just an observation
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