jp - I'm not suggesting in any way, shape or form that this site and its members aren't ultra-helpful as regards camping weekends. Where did you get that idea from? Certainly not from anything I've posted anywhere on this site.
We don't know that the CG 125 rider hasn't got £50,000,000, though it would be rather cynical of us if we thought they had.
If someone turned up on a brand new Harley claiming a concession, that would be a very different situation.
What I'm putting forward is the idea that if someone turns up and can prove that they're unemployed, then they should be allowed a concession funded by a small donation from the rest of us. Is that such a crime?
You're asking for opinions about the pricing of camping weekends. I've put one forward that would involve me (amongst other employed bikers) contributing slightly more financially towards them. Why get so thin-skinned?
If you don't like the concept, then reject it. Simple as that.
The general concensus seems to be that the site we had for Barmouth met everyones basic needs, no consessions were necessary, and no exclusions had to be made. The thread only asked what everyone wanted with regard to facillities and cost, not ways to subsidise those in financial straits.
OK, 66, I take your point, and I may have strayed - microscopically - off the subject. But if an idea associated with the cost of admission has the potential to attract more riders to the camping weekends, then why not put it forward? And why was it implied that I suggested that the organisers don't do their utmost to help campers, when I clearly haven't done so?
Barmouth site was very nice but basic, well worth a fiver. Moth and Lantern was also a fiver and basic but in a different league. I turned up mid-afternoon and the landlord came out to greet me, made me a coffee (free of charge) and offered to cook me a burger even though the pub didn't open for another couple of hours. Just outstanding service.
I wasn't refering to you straying off the thread Valencia, it was indeed on topic, but those with very limited funds would also have to put fuel in their bikes, or cars, and still have to feed and water themselves whilst at the camp, on top of the cost of the campsite fees. When I was short of money and working like a tartar in order to get my head above water, not to far in the distant past either, I had to make the choice between staying at home until I was in a position to go to events or drop myself in the mire financially later on. I am by no means a scholar or a man with qualifications in a portfolio, but it isn't exactly rocket science where a persons priorities lie.
Valencia. I have read over you post on helping out some members with camping costs. Great Idea but trust me it would be the biggest can or worms you would ever open. We have helped less fortunate members with cost's before and we do know what we are talking about. If you know a member who is having financial troubles and cant go to an event please feel free to offer them financial help yourself. But this would be a private matter between yourself and the other member.
66; I have total admiration for those, like yourself, who through sheer hard work manage to get their lifestyle back on to an even keel.
What puzzles me is the implicit notion that making a camping weekend more accessible to the unemployed would amount to a temptation for them to overspend. Placing a jobless person in a BM environment wouldn't necessarily result in them losing control of their personal budget, and I'm sure they'd be aware in advance that the campsite admission fee wouldn't be their only expenditure over the weekend.
In the 1980s I experienced a 15-month period of continuous unemployment. During this time I managed to penny-pinch my way to two rallies. Luxury it wasn't - on the second of these occasions, I was living on sandwiches brought from home - but I was glad I attended them. They were the only two weekends in the 15 months that I spent away from home, and I appreciated them all the more for it. Had someone offered to knock 50p off the entrance fee, I would've been even more grateful. (They didn't.)
When I eventually got a job, I looked back to my recent past and thought to myself - "No-one should ever have to go through that experience again." I suspect that you were of a similar mind after you emerged from your own particular crisis. Others, however, can be more mean-spirited - "I had to go through it. Why shouldn't they?"
I don't think it's right to condemn someone to a life of soul-destroying, continuous home-dwelling (and I know this doesn’t mean being housebound 24/7) simply because they're out of work, especially if it's possible that we could alleviate the situation in some small way.
However, as you will see below, I have decided to no longer advocate any plans for concessions to BM camping weekends.
jp; In case I’m being misunderstood, I’m not advocating financial loans, direct payments or the like to BM members. However, in view of your “can of worms” remark and the fact that you have a lot more experience than I about BM politics, I’ll bow to your wisdom on this subject and will take it no further, as it’s clear that the concept of reduced admission prices to the camping weekends for unemployed people is not seen as viable. I'll have to accept that.
In closing, I have to say it surprises me that the most vehement criticism and opposition thus far on this thread has been directed at an idea intended to show compassion to the more financially vulnerable members of the motorcycling society. And that worries me.
Regards,
Valencia (Non-graduate, lifetime inhabitant of the Merseyside docklands area, currently on minimum wage and riding an "02" plate Kawasaki ER-5.)
Valencia, I currently ride a bike of 1989 vintage, I could if I wished, afford something newer but like my trusted gsxf. I am a non graduate inhabitant of multiple areas, including a 9yr spell in Holland, having taken Norman Tebbits suggestion of getting off my arse and finding gainful employment where I could, I do of course para-phrase. JP was in no way inferring that the unemployed were not deserving of a reprieve from being somewhat limited by their financial predicament, and as he stated, if members know of another member struggling to attend events, they can enter into a private arrangment to help out. Finding sites like Barmouth, that offer basic facillities for a weekend camp should need no further consession. We have had members in the past that have pleaded poverty before and taken advantage of others generosity whilst having the where withall to pay their way. You seem to take umbrage that your suggestions are met with less enthusiasm than you think they deserve, but being a reletive newcomer to the site, you will not have seen this type of discussion taking place.
I don't think there are many more generous people than the biking community. They are generous with their time, with their experience AND with their cash - look at Breast Way Round, Air Ambulance services around the country, Ride to the Wall, WTTR, and you can probably add other examples yourself. We're not a formal club here. There are no central funds that we can set a policy on how to use. For a BM 'event' like the KISS rally then the ticket-only policy might allow a discretionary rate to apply BUT, just look at the comments throughout the threads about people failing to turn out to events that they've added themselves to. Because they're non-ticketed (and I for one prefer it that way) a) no-one is left anxiously waiting for people to commit to the event and for the cash to come in and juggle the concessions and any other arrangements, b) people are free to make, or change, at late/no notice their plans and settle direct with the camp site. Camping is one of the cheapest ways to take a break there is and certainly very flexible, the BM events team ARE already doing something to try to make it inclusive - it's why they've asked us 'How much for Camping?'
I have read through all of the comments that have been made with regard to camping concessions and my thoughts are as follows.
Its a great idea in theory, and we have in fact made concessions several times for events we have organised, but behind closed doors, more so as not to embarrass folk who are having a hard time of it finacially.
My issue is how do you put it in practice?
As Izzy has pointed out, there are very few events that require payment before hand, and not everybody turns up, so how do you know how much to request of folk to put into the kitty so to speak?
If you are going to adjust the price so as to offer concessions, you would need to ask everybody attending if the minded paying a wee bit more, not everybody will be in a position to say yes but may feel obliged to, so as not to look mean.
The organiser of the event would then be required to collect all camping fees off everybody and allocate them accordingly.
What happens if there is not enough money in teh kitty to pay the fees? At the moment camping fees are paid for by the individual on arrival, no need for the organiser to be involved, usually lol
However much i think its a good idea in theory i see no practical way of implementing it, Valencia is this something you have done elsewhere? If so how did it work? Or have you any ideas on how to put it into practice?
I think subsidising people on the 'dole' is an excellent idea. I have subsidized them every day of my working life. However, in these troubled times I realise this is not good enough.
I believe we should give a round of applause to all the Polish workers who have moved to the UK to take up all of the vacancies not suitable for our native unemployed . These Polish workers P.A.Y.E. contributions undoubtedly support quite a lot of the UK unemployed and deserve some recognition for this valiant effort.
After all, whom amongst us would be willing to travel to a foreign land to work and help support that countries own unemployed.
"Sigh..."
I've given up on this one. But just for the record, Jackie - since you at least appear to have read my post with some care - this is the way I saw that it would play out.
1. Weekend advertised as (say) £12 for employed, £9 for unemployed.
2. BM members turn up at rally to pay at gate, as per usual. Employed pay £12, unemployed show proof that they're out of work and pay £9. At the gate.
I said nothing about advance payments. Or payments beforehand. Or tickets.
I said nothing about unemployed campers receiving actual money from BM directly.
I said nothing about jp "inferring that the unemployed were not deserving of a reprieve from being somewhat limited by their financial predicament…"
I did not say that BM excludes members from the rally if they have to come by car.
I did not say that BM exclude members from the camping weekends if they have to bring the kids with them.
I did not say that the extra admission fee paid by the employed would correspond exactly with the “shortfall” from the fees paid by the unemployed.
I did not say that I thought BM didn’t help members on this site a hell of a lot more than other sites do.
The only thing I said about Barmouth is that it appeared to be amazing value for money. I’ve mentioned no other specific sites or weekends.
Sincere thanks, Jackie, for at least making an effort to read what I actually posted, rather than what you wanted to think I posted. And, for the record, I like Sven Hassel too.
You really cant let it lie can you? How many people have come out in favour of your suggestion? No-one has posted that they agree with it, that may change of course, but you now raise subjects never mentioned before. Who said people should be discriminated against because they have kids? Who has ever been told they cant attend aBM event in a car? My firm belief on subjects like this are, if you cant afford the full cost of an event then dont go. If on the other hand, simeone wishes to help out by paying for a weekends camping or a ticket or fuel costs or food cost then that must be by private arrangement between the parties concerned. I personally am getting fed up listening to the same arguement that no-one is "reading" your posts or only reading what they want to see in them.
You really cant let it lie can you? How many people have come out in favour of your suggestion? No-one has posted that they agree with it, that may change of course, but you now raise subjects never mentioned before. Who said people should be discriminated against because they have kids? Who has ever been told they cant attend aBM event in a car? My firm belief on subjects like this are, if you cant afford the full cost of an event then dont go. If on the other hand, simeone wishes to help out by paying for a weekends camping or a ticket or fuel costs or food cost then that must be by private arrangement between the parties concerned. I personally am getting fed up listening to the same arguement that no-one is "reading" your posts or only reading what they want to see in them.
You really cant let it lie can you? How many people have come out in favour of your suggestion? No-one has posted that they agree with it, that may change of course, but you now raise subjects never mentioned before. Who said people should be discriminated against because they have kids? Who has ever been told they cant attend aBM event in a car? My firm belief on subjects like this are, if you cant afford the full cost of an event then dont go. If on the other hand, simeone wishes to help out by paying for a weekends camping or a ticket or fuel costs or food cost then that must be by private arrangement between the parties concerned. I personally am getting fed up listening to the same arguement that no-one is "reading" your posts or only reading what they want to see in them.
Lets move the goalpost so it looks good ?. This is about camping not the KISS RALLY. Kiss Rally is advanced payment only due to we have to pay the bands the DJ The Venue The Insurance + a shit load of other bill's and sort out other issues that you clearly dont understand. At times I have though you dont really understand the real world but now I know your just a fuckin idiot
I NEVER MENTIONED THE KISS RALLY, EITHER!!!
Only been on the site five minutes blah blah blah. Can we leave it now? I've said I've given up on the idea. That last post was to clarify things for Jackie.
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![How much for Camping ? (2) - Forums [Biker Match]](/images/backgrounds/strips/8desktopLQ.jpg)
